Character Level up.

[SilverDragon]

Okay, if a character participates in a fight, they will gain levels. Characters will start on lv 5 and gain levels determined by the staff. There starting hp will also be 50 and they will gain 2 on each level up. On the 10th level up they will gain a different amount based on their race's characteristics.

Humans-8
Piscodemon-7
Elves-6
Dwarves-9
Bird-7
Drake-10
Cat-person-7
Beast-8
Angel-7
Demon-8
Mystic-6

The amounts were chose on the steriotype of the race. The physical races gain more, the "weaker" races gain less, but usually have more agility and dodgin powers.

Post questions, suggestions, arguments, compliments.

[shrew]

Okay then the obvious next question would be how many dodges can each race do in a row before taking a hit? XD

[SilverDragon]

That's where the Whp will come in. Technically you'd be able to block untill your Whp ran out and weapon broke. Cuz then you'd have nothing to protect yourself with. That would be Char VS Char fights.

Otherwise/most likely the standard 5 rule. I guess.

[foreverchanging]

I think she means: How many more dodges can an elve do than a Drake? Sometimes a character won't have time or Whp to block/parry, so they will jump outta the way of an attack. If Elves have ''more agility and dodgin' powers'' than Hp, then where tells us specifically where the difference is, compared to Drakes?

I personally think that Hp is a major part in this game, character, pokemon or weapon. So if a specific race gains 4 less than another, does that race gain an equal amount of dodges per battle?

If a race has about 10 dodges then it instantly becomes unfair to a race with 5 dodges. At the same time, a race with high Hp is gonna beat a low Hp race due to Hp difference - Although the small difference, however, a low Hp race can dodge much more than the high Hp race, and therefore it seems that a low Hp race can win anything if it has a good dodge total.

I think just a few things should be reconsidered.

[SilverDragon]

First of all, there will be some races that will be "harder" to play as when this is all figured out. Just like D&D, just like how some Pokemon are easier to use than others.

The HP is probably going to stay as is. If you look at it, it's only a 40 hp difference for the lowest and highest hp gaining class by the time they hit lv 100. I will consider adjusting the dodges for the "weaker" races. Other things will include magic defense as well. Odds are Drakes will have less defense against magic since they prefer physical things, so gainst a magic using whatever, there will be a semi-disadvantage (Where as the magic users generally have poor physical defense, which Drakes focus on stuff like that).

Also it will depend on the weapons. For example, Drakes prefer Melee fighting (mine does fisticuffs, so he has no weapon at all!). Certain players won't have weapons that can block attacks at all (Like bows), so even if they have lotsa HP, they have nothing to block with (Even if I block with my arms, I'll still take damage.) So messing with dodges is a risky thing.

A lot of it will also depend on how YOU play and your character's personality. Axel is reckless, so even if he had 100 available dodges, he probably wouldn't use them at all. So in that sense it would be unfair for another race to have more dodges.

Lotsa bugs work to through...

[shrew]

...Um in the handheld game of pokemon some pokemon are harder to use than others however in role playing sites that's not really true...And being a mage in a game like that just requires a different strategy than the norm. It's not necessarily harder.

So pretty much what your saying is that elves and such are...well weak useless class in combat. As these types probably can't handle a board-sword or giant ax but some weak flimsly weapon that can't have too much whp. And then they lack HP. And further more they don't get extra speed in which to dodge. Their only hope seems to be pokemon... This seems very very unbalanced. I'm not sure I'm getting this.

Okay so let's go with my character Fluffy so you can explain this better. She's relatively weak. (I mean cat people are at the same strength as Bird people so that's pretty weak in my opinion.) She really doesn't have a weapon. I put teeth and 'claws' as more of a joke in her profile. As she doesn't have claws but sharp fingernails...and well maybe slightly larger canine teeth compared to a human their not going to be any use in physical combat unless the foe somehow gets REALLY close. So she has no defense whatsoever against any weapon. Therefore all attacks have to hit her body unless she can dodge. You described Cat people as not being very adept at magic so it's doubtful she'll know anything. And she only gets 5 dodges. Which is the same as a Drake? A drake who could use the most powerful weapons and have the most hp? And their on about the same level of magical usage. Clearly any drake could kill my character without much effort. They'd just have to wait five turns in total before slowly ending her hp making her faint. Then yes she might be killed depending on the situation. See my point? The lower hp people have been screwed if theres no extra dodging. 'Course Fluffy will more than likely flee most situations but there are times when escape is nearly impossible and fighting is in fact necessary. You describe cat people as agile (i think...can't remember actually) then here you say the weaker people are more agile..but uh...theres no actual benefit for that at all. It's very misleading.

[SilverDragon]

kay then.........
7 hp or less you get 6 dodges
8 you get 4
9 and up you get 2?
(or maybe not that drastic)

But what I'm goin at is that it's only a 40 hp difference. And the high HP classes are weaker to magic, which the low hp classes are good in. So What I assumed was that an attack from a sword to a mage would do the same ratio of damage as a magic spell on a Drake/Dwarf.

By giving the low hp classes more dodges and high hp classes less, it is also unfair. For example. A Drake vs a Mystic.

Drakes HP at lv 100 = 340
Mysitcs HP at lv 100 = 300
(sorry, but that still doesn't look too bad to me.)

Lets say they both dodge the frist two rounds. The Drake is out of dodges while the Mystic still has 4 left. Mystics would use magic so after four more rounds of attacks it could then end up like this: (assuming that each attack does about 20 damage from both characters)

Drakes HP at lv 100 = 250-270
Mysitcs HP at lv 100 = 300

Now both characters are out of dodges and if each character's attack does approximatly 20 damage each, the Drake cannot win.

What if a block by a weapon counts as one of your dodges.
That way character's with a sword wouldn't gain any advantage against someone without an actual weapon.

Here's what the HPs would look like by lv 100.

6=300
7=310
8=320
9=330
10=340

[foreverchanging]

I think that the cost for blocking with a weapon is Whp loss, so i wouldn't count it as a dodge. Try thinking about it where a warrior is like a pokemon trainer, and weapons are like pokemon. It wouldn't count as a dodge if a pokemon got hit by an attack.

Then, even with lower and higher dodges, it can make the situation unfair to those who have fewer dodges. I think something else should be in place of the Low hp>high dodges rule. I don't know what, but something.

And when you say warriors are weak to magic, wizards and rangers in light clothing aren't going to be very protected by a huge sword piercing their 'armour'. So

that an attack from a sword to a mage would do the same ratio of damage as a magic spell on a Drake/Dwarf.

means that all classes would do the rough same amount of damage to eachother (at roughly the same level), but then magic casters and rangers have less hp, so imediately the advantage is on the high hp side. Then the low hp people use tons of dodges (because even 6 is quite a high number in my opinion, atleast compared to 2 dodges) so then its obvious that the low hp people have the advantage. Theres no straight outcome in my opinion.

[shrew]

I agree with FC that blocking with a weapon shouldn't count as a dodge.

No it's really that unfair if you don't take things to the extreme. Average is 5 dodges. So since drakes are super powerful killing machines almost they'd move slower. So they should get like 4 dodges. A mystic who would be dodging swing attacks and probably more agile BECAUSE they are light should get an extra like 6 dodges or something.

But none of that explains the question I asked about my character Fluffy. How would it be possible for her to win in a fight between a drake? Cat people aren't good at magic like mystics no bonus there. Apparently they aren't good at fighting either and she doesn't exactly have a weapon. And they get no advantages dodging wise and are on the weaker spectrum in HP. So my character seems to be entirely screwed combat wise. And this is fair to cat people how? They're mediocre at EVERYTHING. Oh but supposedly they're good at talking their way out of problems...which isn't a stat and I that's entirely left up the the players skill level and of course the skill level of the other rper.

I'm sure there might be other character flaws like that but seeing as I only have a cat person I'm only aware of this one right now...

[foreverchanging]

Cat people can weild weapons if they like, and i suppose things such as clawed gauntlets can be bought for them. But then again, i see entirely what you mean - there are still some things not sorted out with a few races.

What i'm trying to say is that light armoured people such as rangers and mages take loads of damage from a melee attack, but then again a melee user has armour which can be penetrated by magic and pierced with piercing arrows, so that would do loads of damage to a melee person. If each cancles eachother out, then why should non-melee have more dodges and less Hp than melee, and vice versa.

[shrew]

I know cat people CAN use weapons (mine can't she's a trainer anyway) however I don't get the impression they are any good with them. After all: "They don’t practice magic, but rely on their wits and charm instead." So they can't use magic. And nowhere does it say anything about them being good with weapons. Instead we get that they use their wits and charms...which implies they aren't good physical fighters at all. And here they don't even have good hp...They have less than humans who can use magic and probably are decent with weapons as well. So what exactly ARE cat people better at than other species? Why should people want to be them if theres no bonus or benefit? The cat ears and tails only take it so far. After all the novelty of appearance on a text based rp site doesn't last long at all. Beasts are described like cat people except other types of animals but they have more hp than the cats? Why may I ask?

Then why not have everyone have the same hp? As they all cancel each other out? Why should melee fighters have a advantage over magic users when the magic is just as powerful as a sword stroke? That's unbalancing the system right there. Some characters are getting more hp for seemingly no reason. Especially if having lower hp has no benefit like an extra dodge.

Honestly I'm for having characters not having hp at all. Because lets face it! If your character loses their hp and another character wants to kill the loser...what's to stop them? Beside the whole you can't kill my character without my permission thing. XD Logically the fainted warrior is defenseless to a death dealing blow. So for some reason the bloodthirsty warrior has to stay his assault. It can be hard to do and keep the murdering character IC. That's the biggest issue I see with having an HP system for actual characters.

Also theres characters that can fly...If your a melee fighter without a bow or something these characters can woop any warrior. I mean they won't be able to hit a flying bird person with a sword. And if the birds use magic or have a bow...yeah the warrior on the ground is screwed. That will be an issue all right. XD Unless bird people and drakes CAN'T use magic or use their weapons while in the air.

[foreverchanging]

It says that they rely on wits and charms instead of MAGIC. Nowhere says that they cannot weild, use or become experts with weapons. The next part about beasts having a weird amout of HP in comparrison, dispite almost the same race, and the HP/dodge differences, i am following.

Whats the point of weapons and armour if a character has no hp? - Thats the question. To me, there is no point. The basics of this forum is that its a 'Pokemon Rp with D&D Qualities', so its got to have HP systems for characters, otherwise its hard to live up to its title. And obviously noones gonna die unless they allow it, but the awkward 'why not' is a chance to develop character.

What about when a pokemon uses fly? Its the same thing, except nothing can hit it (rather than just ranged and magic). And then, if a flying character is not a melee user, then even with ranged and magic its going to be innaccurate because of how much smaller the target looks. And then, characters on the ground can run and hide - so theres a way of dodging aerial disaster. Even if you are a melee ground-walker, you still have the option to throw your weapon (not the best idea XD), or wait to counter an aerial assault. And then, whos to say a melee user can't use magic? Not all people are going to be magicless - I've seen games where swordsman still have spells, even though they are not as powerful as fully-trained mage spells.

[shrew]

Actually on all the races it's pretty vague on how naturally good each race is at melee combat. Really the race bio sheet thingy only really goes into how good each race is with magic. The subject of weapons is pretty vacant. I do believe that should be modified if we are in fact using weapons. ^^ I bet it didn't go into that because the subject of weapons wasn't put in yet. Or it was just an oversight. Regardless that should probably be fixed.

Okay so you mean after battling with a combatant with melee attacks cat people like to charm their opponent to death in place of a fire ball? That would be using charms and wits instead of magic. XD In a literal sense of course. Obviously if cat people use their wits and charms it generally would mean they would use them to AVOID combat. Most likely because they wouldn't be skilled at it. Of course this might just be worded wrong and wasn't what our admin was trying to covey. But that's what I got out of that sentence. That cat people suck at combat.

For the lawls? Weapons and armor are nice but this system almost forces a character to have the to survive. Alright so D&D style means that every character needs stats for strength, defense, magic defense, dodges, HP, MP, ect. All of that and more would be needed for it to live up to it's name in that sense. Which would be ridiculous. A mixture of elements of fantasy adds enough of the D&D mix. And really all these issues end if we just eliminate stats from the trainers or warriors. As mystic against a drake is set in stats that aren't recorded in HP or dodges. Rather their various defense stats. At least that's how it'd work in any rpg like D&D. And thats the true issue here. Your saying magic=melee weapons. How do we know which spells equal which physical attacks or which types are stronger. The only way would be by looking at the defense or magic defense stats. And that would be ridiculous to add to a text based game in which the whole point of the game is character development and not winning fights in the first place. Unless I'm on a different mindset than our staff. Which I might be. >.> And if it's out of character for a bloodthirsty person not to kill the other character it's out of character. It can be really hard to get a character that was focus on one thing to change pace. At least I have issues with that. XD

Yeah but a pokemon is using the attack fly. The character would just be flying instead of walking or running. (unless flying for characters can only be used as an attack too...?) See In my mind if I was flying I'd just stay out of distance from the opponents weapons and fire weapons from there. So they wouldn't be up that high. Maybe one story up. So that wouldn't give the people on foot much time to get cover or anything. Whether the melee warrior knows magic or not they are still at a disadvantage. Although perhaps flying means they would have to keep moving and it's hard to hit things while on the move? I dunno but we should get that worked out before a fight between a ground character and a flying one occurs. I can just see issues with that happening. >.>

[foreverchanging]

Unless ever said in the bio of a race, the ability of combat for races is down to the specific character. The 'character weaknesses and advantages' sections in the character forms is where you put any combat (dis)advantages. Your character's weakness could be that they suck with weapons and magic, but at the same time, their advantage is that they're not wreckless enough to run into an attack full-on and that they have a good sense when a fight is fair or not. Brute force isn't always the key to winning a fight, tactics and thinking 1st are just as good.

In the bio it said that they typically aren't good with magic , but instead use wits and charms. It never said anything about them being any good or bad with melee/ranged attacks. Once again, this falls down to character-specific abilities. And who's to say that your character doesn't know/learn the odd spell or 2 from their story? I'm pretty sure (not 100% because i'm not SD) that nearly every race/character can have some form of magic - 1 way or the other.

Of course those thing fall into line, but the basics are: Hp, weapons and armour (possibly Mana/Mp too sometime in future). And, obviously, this site is still new and growing to its full potential, but currently we're taking things step-by-step. New spells and attacks are going to be made in a list soon (or hopefully). I don't even think charrie combat stuff has been decided upon yet either - Its kinda still a pending idea, or a work in progress. I might be wrong about the whole melee=magic=ranged thing, but i think about it as: Swords can easily penetrate fabric clothing, Who says that the elements in a spell are stopped by pityful armour, Arrows can pierce through of armour and clothes. If your sure that somebodies gonna kill you rather than spare you then win or run away. And even at that, users can keep their characters alive (as i've already said), even though it may become awkward for the other person (in which case, don't fight a player whos gonna do that XD).

In Physics, if your flying theres going to be all sorts of things affecting your downward attacks. There's the wind, your wings moving, misjudgement of height/distance - all sorts of things. And on the other hand, your completly out in the open - their are no rocks or trees to hide behind if your in the air. Infact, it actually might be a disadvantage for flying characters against ground dwellers.

Once again, i may be wrong for some of this, but i'm sure SD could figure something out - tis his site.